Divorce Discussions: Joe Dillon on Mediation vs. Litigation

Host: Angie Weber, Director of Divorce Support Collective
Guest: Joe Dillon, Equitable Mediation Services

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Angie: Hello and welcome to Divorce Discussions. I am Angie Weber, the director of the Divorce Support Collective, where our mission is to reimagine the process of divorce through collaboration and support from contemplation to thriving post-decree. Today I am joined by Joe Dillon, a pioneer in divorce mediation who has been helping couples navigate the end of their marriages with dignity and financial wisdom for over 17 years.

As co-founder of Equitable Mediation Services, Joe combines his MBA in finance with specialized training from Harvard, MIT, and Northwestern University to guide couples toward agreements that protect both their emotional well-being and their financial futures. As a child of divorce who witnessed firsthand the devastating impact of attorney-driven litigation on families, Joe brings personal experience combined with professional expertise to help couples focus on creating agreements that work for everyone, especially the children.

Joe believes divorce doesn’t have to be destructive. With the right guidance and expertise, couples can part ways while protecting what matters most. Thank you for joining me today, Joe.

Joe: Thanks for having me, Angie. Glad to be here.

Angie: Why is there this misconception that the only way to do divorce is to get a lawyer and fight and battle it out for years?

Joe: That’s a great question. When we watch TV – I’m a huge fan of Law and Order and CSI – everything’s wrapped up in an hour. We see that and think, “This judge is benevolent and they’re going to decide, and in 60 minutes I’ll be done.” But what people don’t realize is that in those crime situations, they’re entering a court of law where there are clear rules – we can all agree it’s not a good idea to kill somebody.

The family court system is different – it’s a court of equity. There are no clear-cut rules like “if you do this, then this happens.” It’s all open to interpretation. People get confused because they think if they go to court with a lawyer, it’ll be wrapped up in a day or two. What they don’t realize is that it’s a negotiation – constant back and forth.

When lawyers are involved, it’s like that game of telephone. You tell your lawyer, the lawyer tells the other lawyer, the other lawyer tells your soon-to-be ex. There’s so much miscommunication and time lost, and money of course, that the emotional stress builds, the bank accounts drain, and everybody feels trapped.

I’ve been practicing mediation for 28 years and in private practice for 17. I can tell you from experience there is a better way. In mediation, couples are empowered to make those decisions. That’s why I’m here today – to educate people that there are alternatives. You don’t just need to “lawyer up.” Your divorce doesn’t have to be a disaster. Yes, you can get an agreement you both think is fair. Yes, this can cost you a lot less money, time, and emotional heartache.

Angie: When people go through mediation, are there times when lawyers will be brought in to help?

Joe: It depends on the mediator. We say if you feel the need to consult with an attorney, we are totally supportive of that, but we do not require it. Some mediators do require their clients to retain attorneys. At Equitable Mediation, we do not. We believe you’re adults and can make your own decisions.

That doesn’t mean I’m not watching the proceedings. If I see something concerning, I might require someone to speak to a lawyer. There are things lawyers can engage with the court system for – if someone’s withholding information or hiding money, you need a court order to start digging through that. But thankfully, in mediation, that rarely happens. People who come to mediation tend to want to engage in good faith negotiation and avoid the circus of attorney-driven divorce.

I’d say probably about 95% of our clients choose not to involve an attorney, but the choice is entirely up to them.

Angie: What should couples look for to determine if mediation is right for them, and what are red flags that suggest it might not be?

Joe: The number one thing is you both need to be on the same page. In our experience, one person is typically the driver of divorce. Statistics show that the average person who files for divorce has been thinking about it for two years and one month. The other person is kind of two years behind the curve.

Mediation requires active participation by both parties and full disclosure. If I ask you for a bank statement, tax return, or pay stub, you have to be willing to give it to me. The worst thing you can say to a mediator is “Why do you need that?” That raises red flags immediately.

The third thing is respectful communication. Divorces can get heated – even the most amicable ones. It’s a disagreement by default. When friends disagree, we raise our voices, and that’s okay as long as we’re being respectful. But if we’re starting to name-call, slander, scream and yell, that’s not going to work.

Red flags include disclosure issues, mental incapacity, substance abuse, and domestic violence. With domestic violence, there’s usually a significant power imbalance, and those individuals may not even be able to communicate directly with their spouse.

But if you’re willing and open to engage and disclose, mediation can work for pretty much anybody who wants it to work.

Angie: Even in mediation, emotions can get high and voices can get raised. What are some tips for helping clients come back to that collaborative style when tensions escalate?

Joe: The first thing I do is remind them that at some point in their past, whether at city hall or in a banquet hall filled with 200 of their closest family and friends, they stood up and said, “This is the person that I most love, care, and respect.” I’m not asking you to repair your marriage or not get divorced – that’s not my role. But let’s recall that at some point, you were on the same page or best friends.

The other piece, especially when children are involved, is asking “What would your kids think of you if they were sitting in the room right now?” As a child of divorce, when my parents were screaming and yelling, it didn’t matter if I locked myself in my room – I could still hear them. Kids can sense that tension even when parents think they’re hiding it.

Here’s a little trick I use: I figure out how long they’ve been married and look at their kids’ ages. I’ll say, “You guys have been married 10 years and have a three-year-old. Do you realize you’re going to be co-parents until your child gets out of college for the next 19 years? That’s nearly twice as long as you’ve been married. Would you like that period to be miserable or pleasant?” That reframes it – they realize they’re going to see a lot more of each other post-divorce.

Angie: What other professionals or support do you recommend people get during divorce?

Joe: Three people come to mind. Number one is a counselor. People look at me like, “We’re getting a divorce. Why do we need a marriage counselor?” You don’t need a marriage counselor per se, but you’re trying to evolve your relationship to become co-parents. Even while you’re divorcing in mediation with me, still go to therapy, whether together or individually, because you need to manage these emotions.

My partner Cheryl, who’s also my wife, is a divorce coach on our team. She provides emotional support. My background is finance and negotiation – I’m very tactical, financial, paperwork-driven. But it’s not money that drives divorce, it’s emotions. If we don’t resolve those emotions, you’ll be stuck in circles.

Number two is a financial advisor. A lot of us think only millionaires have financial advisors. If you have $5,000 in the bank, I want you to talk to somebody. You’re going to become an independent financial entity responsible for building your own financial future. All those little moves you make now will add up to big dollars when you’re 65 or 75.

I saw this with my mom. She gave up her share of my dad’s pension to reduce the equity in their house. She worked in retail at companies that went bankrupt, and between Social Security and her pension, she had about $1,200 a month. She didn’t plan for her financial future after getting divorced at 45, and that really harmed her down the road.

Number three is an accountant. I have an MBA in finance and still hire an accountant for my taxes and have a financial advisor because it’s complicated. You can make a lot of mistakes, and these professionals can guide you through keeping your financial house in order.

Angie: What’s the number one financial mistake you see people make during divorce?

Joe: Here’s my famous phrase – learn it, live it, love it: “Do the discovery before the deciding.” People come into mediation and the absolute worst thing they can say is “We’ve got it all figured out.” I know immediately this will be one of the most challenging cases I’ve ever had.

Somebody went on the internet, talked to the cashier at the supermarket, and their friend’s college roommate’s brother-in-law got divorced and told them what they’ll get in alimony. They come in with all these decisions, and I start asking questions because part of my job is to poke holes. When I ask questions, one person says “I didn’t know that” and wants to change their mind. Then the other person jumps in with “But you said we agreed to this!” That’s when it spins out of control.

The financial mistake people make is they don’t collect proper information to make decisions – budgets, pay stubs, tax returns, balance sheets. If I gave you a jigsaw puzzle and the box was half empty, you’d say “Why would I do this? I don’t have all the pieces.” Don’t make decisions without complete information.

Angie: How do you help couples create realistic post-divorce budgets that actually work?

Joe: We have proprietary budget worksheets with about a hundred different categories. It’s so easy these days with credit cards to have things on auto-bill. I ask people to dig through their credit cards and bank statements line by line. I’ll review it and say, “Really? You’re going to spend $75 a month on groceries? Really?”

We have resources – the USDA has a website tracking average grocery costs for families. I’ll say “They estimate you’ll spend $878 a month, not $75.” We push back because we’re trying to set you up for success. We want to challenge you so you get it right out of the gate with a good foundation.

We also show them how to track inflation using the consumer price index. We ask what kind of raises they’ve gotten. “No raises over the last five years? Well, this gap might get bigger. You need to find areas to trim. You can’t do five vacations a year and have that $2,000 car payment.”

We become the financial disciplinarian. If you’re slightly annoyed with me, I’ve done my job because I’ve challenged you and balanced the playing field. Once a year, go back and look at that budget. Pick 10 categories and track them. Notice when your mortgage went from $2,000 to $2,700 a month and plan for that.

Angie: What states do you work in?

Joe: We work in six states: Washington, California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. I’m originally from New Jersey, lived in Chicago, and now live in the San Diego area, so you can see how our practice has moved over the years. These are very mediation-friendly states – not all states are as supportive of the mediation process.

If you’re not in a state we practice in, there are web directories and Google searches to find mediators. On our website, there’s an article on how to hire a good mediator. We also have a guide on how to hire a lawyer because sometimes mediation is inappropriate. I’ll tell clients when I don’t think mediation will work for them, and I want them to get a good attorney – one that’s supportive and cooperative, not just looking to bill hours.

Get educated, get out there, and if you live in one of those six states, we’re happy to talk to you. You can schedule a free call with us.

Angie: Thank you so much for your time today, Joe. Listeners, make sure to get connected with Joe and check out those articles so you’re best equipped and empowered. Stay tuned for more Divorce Discussions, and if there’s additional support we can help you with, go to divorceupportcollective.com.

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Contact Information:

• Joe Dillon, Equitable Mediation Services
• Website: equitablemediation.com
• Free consultation available for residents of Washington, California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania
• Angie Weber, Divorce Support Collective: divorceupportcollective.com